Must everything we do have some cosmic significance? Photo: Crishna Simmons
How do you sleep at night? Or get up in the morning? Doesn’t life seem pointless?
The religious conviction that a life without God is somehow one devoid of meaning has always baffled me. Personally, I see the situation in reverse, for I struggle to understand how the faithful deal with the following.
Life is mundane – it’s inevitable. There are forms to fill in, dishes to be washed and toenails to be cut. I do struggle to grasp how someone of faith gets through the unavoidable tedium of an average day whilst maintaining a conviction that life resonates with cosmic meaning. Demonstrably, much of the time, it doesn’t. Furthermore, and unless you live in the Bible Belt of America, the majority of your days must be spent mixing with people of different faiths or indeed no faith at all (hello!) However worthwhile your job might seem, I wonder how you motivate yourself to care about it when you believe that most of your colleagues and clients are destined for hell – whether for you that means oblivion, the absence of God, or the fiery furnace.
Life is cruel – or it can be. Whilst religious people claim that their faith is a comfort, this is another train of thought that I cannot get my head round. If your baby is sick and you pray fervently to God to save him, how can you still trust your God when your baby dies? Was God not listening? Then He abandoned you. Could He not help? Then He is impotent and prayer is pointless. Was He testing you? Then He’s one sick-minded ruler. For those of us without faith, a devastating loss such as the death of a child is not something that we somehow have to reconcile with the paradoxical belief that an all-powerful and all-loving God still cares about us. It just …. happens. It’s terrible, it’s heart-breaking and it’s unfair. And it happens.
Life is insignificant – in the span of the universe. I never thought I’d say this, but I’m starting to come to the conclusion that the convictions held by Creationists, as barking mad and as scientifically untenable as they are, make more sense than those held by the majority of moderate Christians. Why? Well, let’s just take a couple of points that we know to be the facts (unless you’re a Creationist, of course). The earth is around 5 or 6 billion years old. Dinosaurs roamed upon it for c. 65 million years. By comparison, homo sapiens has only been knocking around for roughly 200,000 years. Why on earth do we think we’re so important as to be made in the Creator’s image? From a Christian point of view, we then have to accept the bizarre notion that humans had to wait 198,000 years for the Messiah to pop up in a spectacularly unpromising part of the world. For an all-powerful being, God does make things difficult, doesn’t He?
For me, religion does not bring meaning, for it fails to explain anything even remotely to my satisfaction. As Dawkins said in his letter to his daughter, tradition, authority and revelation are three very poor reasons for accepting something to be true. For me, inventing a supernatural significance in order to give myself a sense of purpose is an empty and pointless exercise.
So where do we find meaning in our lives? Well, it will be different for everyone. An older lady once said to me that life is a series of moments, and increasingly I think she is right. It is hugely important to me to be present in the here and now as much as I can. To feel filled with awe and wonder as I look straight into the eyes of an urban fox. To watch a pond-skater as it whisks across the surface of the water, and to be in a position to realise that the pond is their universe. To gaze at the stars and remind myself that some of them may not be there any more. To stroke a purring cat. To stand on a limestone pavement and be told by a more knowledgeable friend that it was formed over tens of thousands of years.
This world and this life – with its inevitable tedium, its inescapable pain and its relative insignificance – is astonishing. For me, that is more than enough.
Very well put Emma. I whole Heartedly agree.
I would recommend you all to get yourselves a copy of The Bible and have a read of it before making judgements on other peoples beliefs.
You can pick to pieces anything you want really whether it be that God created everything or everything started from a Big Bang. Faith gives people like me hope in seeing loved ones again and to knowing the God will destroy this wicked world we live in and make things all new where there will be no pain or suffering. I hope some of you do pick up The Bible and let Gods Holy Spirit help you see that by following Jesus’ teaching you too can be saved. Start with the New Testament. God Bless you all.
I’m pleased for you, that you are able to have such faith. However, despite years of study (starting with the New Testament) I do not. And it is only by accident of birth that I was not born into another religious persuasion. Iris that also part of God’s plan?
Hi Darren,
I’ve actually read the Bible from cover to cover twice–even the Book of Leviticus, which gave me an awful feeling about God. I was an extremely zealous “born again” Christian for seven years, so I understand your beliefs: I’ve been where you are now.
I don’t want to take away the beliefs you’re leaning on: you might need those right now. You might not be ready to let go of them yet. All I would say is this: don’t stop questioning your beliefs, and don’t be afraid of doubt. “By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.” – Abelard
For me, what unraveled my faith was the idea of hell: it’s impossible to reconcile a place of eternal torment with a loving God. You have to check your Reason and Logic at the door to accept that doctrine, and after a while I couldn’t do it anymore.
I wish you the best on your spiritual journey, but the important thing is this: be a good person. Whatever your beliefs are, just be the best person you can be. That’s true spirituality, and that (to me) is what humanism is about.
Thanks for your kind replies Jason and Liz. Can I just ask you a couple of things, How do you think life started on Earth and how did you get to that reasoning?
Would be interesting to know your personal thoughts on this.
Regards
Darren,
Much more relevant than the pointless question “How did life start on Earth?” is the all-important question “What do you base your thinking on?”
In the case of Christianity, thinking is based on the three things Emma decried in this article: authority (someone tells you to believe something, so you do), tradition (your religion has been around for ages, so it must be true), and revelation (someone claims God told them something, and you believe them).
All three are fallacies.
Much surer foundations for thinking are Reason, Logic, and Evidence–three things Christians don’t practice, and cannot abide. There are a thousand places where your Bible won’t hold up to even the most basic logic–yet it’s not the Bible you throw out, it’s the logic. You’re willing to accept talking animals, magic apples, virgin births, and hundreds of impossible feats, if it means you have “hope of seeing your loved ones again.”
To me that’s a bad bargain. If a thing is false, it’s false. Believing in it won’t make it magically true.
Start thinking for yourself, Darren. Don’t just swallow what you’ve been told to believe: question it.
Jason,
A question is never pointless if asked. So again what are your thoughts/beliefs on how everything began and where did that reasoning come from.
Darren
Hi Darren. Just for the record, I too have read the bible from cover to cover, I was a born again Christian for over 20 years and I gradually came to the honest conclusion that no religion, let alone Christianity has the truth. Religions, like all ideas are human creations. The point is to have the humility and integrity to acknowledge that; only then can you really move forward in your quest for truth.
You ask a question about the origins of the world or universe. I agree with you that it is a fascinating question and it is one which scientists have been trying to tackle for many hundreds of years. If you are sincere about your interest in this subject, I would suggest you need to turn your attention to science rather than to religion or any holy book. Your question involves a lengthy answer and one that couldn’t possibly be addressed properly in a forum such as this. Science doesn’t have a complete answer to this question yet but there is a lot of very interesting material out there you can read. I would recommend a book by Lawrence Krauss entitled “A Universe From Nothing.” I think I should also point out that science doesn’t have all the answers and unlike religion, it doesn’t claim to. That’s why good reason I would rather trust science than religion.
People are very quick to jump on the “Bible is Tosh Bus” which is their opinion, we all have opinions, but I am interested on your thoughts/beliefs on how everything began. I don’t want to know about what such and such a person wrote in a book, I would like to know your thoughts. I do understand you saying my question would require a lengthy answer but why not try to summarise so then at least I can read and try to understand your reasoning.
Regards
Darren, I haven’t made up my mind about how everything began. That’s the whole point. The jury is still out there. That’s my opinion if you’re really that interested in it. I can only point to what scientists out there are saying at present. It’s okay to admit one doesn’t have all the answers Darren. Really it is! Sorry if you’re not interested in what scientists have to say, that’s your problem and your loss. I haven’t said the Bible is all Tosh. I said it won’t provide you with the answers you are looking for. No Darren, I’m not going to write a summary for you of what scientists are saying. Start reading and thinking for yourself and make up your own mind.
If you haven’t made up your mind why are you so dismissive against The Bible and seeming to believe in the Big Bang theory. I just happened to come across this forum via twitter and am glad I did. I like a good discussion. But no one on here that I can see has mentioned their thoughts on how everything began. Are people afraid to get ridiculed on this forum by putting their own views on how things began? There are lots of comments on what Christians believe and how ridiculous those beliefs are but where are the thoughts and beliefs on those people who don’t believe in God ( or a higher being) because so far I haven’t read one. All I have read as a reply is how wrong I am, but no one has actually replied to my question, takes to long, don’t really know etc etc etc etc. come on people you have your own minds of that I am sure. I started reading The Bible without any prompting or brainwashing. I researched the Chapters I didn’t understand and to me it all makes sense. To read something from cover to cover doesn’t mean you know the true understanding/meaning of it. I look forward to your replies.
Regards
Darren, since you ask why I don’t accept what the bible says about the beginnings of the world or universe, that’s easy. Clearly you haven’t read what the bible very well if you’re asking me that. On the day one of the creation God says “Let there be light, and there was.” Genesis goes on to say that God called the light day and he called the darkness night. That was the first day of creation. Now fast forward to day four and here you read that God creates the sun. Hold on a moment, if day light comes from the sun anyway where did the day light come from during the first three days given that the sun wasn’t created until day four. I could go on: but what’s the point. Reason, logic and evidence break down here when you take a literalistic interpretation of the bible and treat the bible like a science book.
The point is Darren, you’re not really interested in what science has to say about this subject, are you? You believe in a literalistic interpretation of the bible and that’s that. If the bible says X is so, than it is. End of story. In which case I don’t know why you’re bothering to ask us about our views of science or anything else. Why should you care? And why are wasting your time asking us for reasons or evidence that you have already decided is inadmissible anyway?
Clearly your beliefs are based on your interpretation on the first few verses of Genesis. No where does it say in the Bible how old the Earth is, I don’t doubt the universe is Billions of years old, I don’t doubt Dinosaurs roamed around the Earth. I have seen the evidence of that first hand. Your basing a day to be a day as you know it to be (isn’t that taking something literally and Contradicting oneself!!!!) I myself don’t. I see all that is around me and am not blinkered by others views, I make my own mind up based on the evidence at hand. To think as you do that we came about from a Random Big Bang happening then some time later a few Astoroids hitting the Earth which brought some cells with them, then all these cells decided to form themselves into millions of different creatures on land, air and sea, all of which have the most intricate designs possible. Each one individual to itself. Or there is the theory of the human race coming out of the sea as Mudskippers and evolving or my favourite one is the Monkey. Yes we do have similaritys with them but that is how The Lord made them is it not. I don’t pity you as some would but I think you need to make your own mind up and stop following the crowd. Open your eyes/mind to what is out there and don’t take everything literally. I won’t be replying to anymore posts as my work is done here. I have found it very interesting reading other peoples points of view however blinkered they may be.
I wish you well and will pray for you.
Regards.
I knew you were a simplistic timewaster, Darren, from the outset, which is why I waited for you to reveal yourself – rather like a talking snake in a garden.
Talking of which, the Genesis story you are unsure about reveals that after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve realised they were naked and hid their nakedness with leaves, then hid away from “god” in the garden.
When – later – “god” walked [note: walked; “he” must have had legs, ankles and feet, I suppose?] in the garden looking for Adam and Eve HE COULD NOT FIND THEM. HE HAD TO CALL OUT THEIR NAMES AND TO REVEAL THEMSELVES.
Does that equate to an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful supernatural entity?
Can it not be asked “How stupid was “god” in forbidding Adam and Eve to eat the fruit when averagely intelligent parents will tell you it is virtually guaranteed that if you tell a child not to do something they will often end up doing it”?
Why, if “god” is so all-knowing and all-powerful, was he so utterly unable to know and predict the behaviour of Adam and Eve?
Alternatively, if “god” is – in fact – all-knowing and all-seeing and all-powerful, then “god” must have been able to predict their behaviour and their “fall” into “sin” and expulsion from the garden. In which case, your “god” is a cruel tyrant who deserves no respect whatsoever, having engineered a situation of paradise initially, which was then cruelly taken away from all human beings after he tricked our earliest ancestors into a situation where “he” could subsequently impose a burden of “sin” guilt on all of humankind for all eternity. Nice guy !!
The only other available explanation is that the bible is a work of fiction and literally unbelievable as a source of information of any use to humankind.
How else did we all start? Take your pick.
There are so many creationist myths adhered to by thousands of cultures in space and time around the world that we are all literally spoiled for choice.
Perhaps the original is best. Try Gilgamesh. That may well suit you.
To Ian23 I say one thing: Yes, I am convinced that there are literalist believers in religious nonsense. Ordinarily – in the West – this is not a particular problem as it causes little harm to those holding the belief or others they associate with.
In parts of the Middle East, right now – however – these beliefs cause immense levels of harm, murder, bloodshed, rape, looting and other appalling acts.
I know of no single humanist group behaving like that anywhere in the world.
I suggest you think very carefully about why that is…….
Darren,
It seems to me that you are looking for a god of the gaps. We may never know exactly how everything started, but in all honesty, I don’t think it matters in this context. Every year scientists find the answers to questions that have been asked for a long time. Many of those answers refute bible claims. The bible has lost the war on truth a hundred times over. I don’t understand why people try to hold onto the last strands that science is yet to answer and use that as a reason to have faith in a higher power. For all that your god doesn’t accomplish in this world, it is verging on being offensive to me that people still believe in a sky fairy who is all loving and all good. 7000 kids will die of starvation tomorrow. Many of them will be praying to your god. Now tell me that next time you pray to your god for a pay rise that he felt you were more worthy than a 6 year old Ethiopian child who is forced to drink stagnant water to survive.
>Darren said August 22, 2014 at 1:59 pm
>Can I just ask you a couple of things, How do you think life >started on Earth and how did you get to that reasoning?
‘How do you think life started on Earth’? This is a scientific question. I have never found ancient ‘holy’ (almost certainly man-made) texts to be reliable sources of answers to scientific questions.
The scientific term for how life started on Earth is ‘abiogenisis’. Today I found a peer-reviewed review article by Miller in 1990. I searched Wikipedia and found an interesting ‘Abiogenesis’ article. I searched my PC for articles and found a few by Scientific American articles. All the pdf files are here: http://goo.gl/OXv9BF
Darren, I hope you enjoy browsing the articles I’ve selected.
I just wanted to point out that this is not a discussion Darren has gotten himself into. Science is active on the Material plane of life, whereas faith is active on the Spiritual plane of life. They are two different things and cannot be compared.
Quoting Jason C.: “In the case of Christianity, thinking is based on the three things Emma decried in this article: authority (someone tells you to believe something, so you do), tradition (your religion has been around for ages, so it must be true), and revelation (someone claims God told them something, and you believe them).”
Christianity is a religion. A religion is not the same thing as faith is. A religion is organized, the same way your government can be organized. Faith is not. Authority, tradition, and revelation are keywords for corruption and are as valid for any organization such as religion as well as for a government based on “science”. Anyway, this results in Jason C. NOT responding to Darren!
Going to Chris Chessum who “breaks down” the Genesis of the Bible with his “reason, logic and evidence”. Reason, logic and evidence are all three part of the Material plane. Yes, you are right. Using these three things show that Genesis is bollocks. However, it is not applicable on Genesis, for this is not in the Material plane, but in the Spiritual plane. So you did NOT break down Genesis and you also did NOT respond to Darren. Darren points this out to you in the following way: “Your basing a day to be a day as you know it to be.” The light and darkness mentioned in Genesis does not need to mean the light and darkness as you know it. Therefore, it is possible to have the sun created in the fourth day (which in turn might not be the “sun” as you know it).
As for a last thing. Darren is right to ask you that question. He is not expecting a correct answer in scientific language. However, he is expecting awareness about the Spiritual plane. He is not denying the Material plane, but you guys are denying the Spiritual plane. He embraces them both, while you guys seem to have a problem placing the latter. However, as can be read from the original article from Emma, you guys and Emma are active in it. So you guys should first recommend yourself, and not Darren, to read literature such as the Dhammapada and others. And remember, just because the Bible is written and can be read in the Material plane, it’s essence is about the Spiritual plane.
I’m an atheist myself and I’m active in the field of science, but as I read from this “discussion” I’m with Darren and you should definitely hear out what he has to say. It seems to me he is the more knowledgeable one here.
Regards
P.S.: You can bash my anonymity if you like.
I suspect the anonymous writer here is actually Darren not wishing to reveal himself.
What is this “spiritual plane” , just fantasy and wishful thinking it seems to me.
I think the others are quite open in recieving a non-humanist such as Darren and are very open for dialogue. However, regarding John Dwodle, his reaction is content-wise (see my other reaction to get an idea why) as well as how his reaction is presented (I quote: “I knew you were a simplistic timewaster, Darren” and I quote again: “I suggest you think very carefully about why that is…….”, and let’s not forget the ALL CAPS RAGE) very baffling. I think this image (now also known as a meme) shows my summarized thoughts about your comment, John Dwodle: https://i.imgflip.com/85j5j.jpg
Try to, at least, present your thoughts differently in the future.
Why do you think this world is wicked? That seems to me to be a very miserable and negative world view.
Hi Darren – I do wonder why your are “supping with the devil” by posting on a humanist website. If you are looking for converts, I would have thought there would be more fertile places. Faith is belief without evidence which precisely sums up belief in God or revelation or religious superstitions of any kind. The world is exactly what you would expect – random, poorly designed, pitilessly indifferent to cruelty, killing and injustice – if there was no creator or supreme being. No one would think of relying on faith when buying a house, choosing a partner or investing money. Wy should it then be appropriate for deciding questions about the nature of the universe and the meaning and purpose of life. We are on our own, dear friends, with only reason and, of course, the BHA to help us through it all!
Peace and ease of being to all,
Terry
You almost certainly won’t be seeing your loved ones again. When people die, that’s the end of them. There is no evidence that anything else is true. So, you should try to remember them and celebrate their lives and all that they did NOW, in the one life that you have.
Six years ago my beloved son was shot dead in South Africa. I don’t have a need to blame anyone else other than the person who pulled the trigger. At his funeral people exhorted me to trust in the Lord to help me recover. This seemed bizarre in the extreme. This loving, caring ‘Lord’ had done nothing to help my son and yet I was now supposed to put my trust in ‘him’ to help me? He seemed totally unreliable as a source of help or support!
I haven’t found myself asking why my son, why us as a family. Shit happens to so many and it’s happened to us. As far as I’m concerned my son has gone. He will remain in my heart until I’m gone. I find this much more straight forward and real than anything any faith has to offer about some nebulous afterlife. I have discovered that in the midst of extreme grief you experience all sorts of strange feelings, but I have come to realise that these are one’s mind coming to terms with the loss and wishing for that one last contact with the person, especially when you didn’t get the chance to say ‘goodbye’.
Trying to live in the present, making every day count is the best memorial I can give my son. He would have wanted me to have a good life, of that I’m certain. He also tried to make a difference to others in his life, so to continue to do this is also important. That is what gives my life meaning, in the hope that my actions will in some very small way make this earth a better place.
Everything you’ve written is a tribute to your son and is an example to all of us of how to live following a tragedy. I wish you the very best for the future.
Jan: My wife died in 2001 at the comparatively young age of 49 years.
In her lifetime she made an enormous contribution to the lives of very many other people.
She never acted in a flashy way or tried to draw attention to herself while doing good things but one thing I know about her, you, me and your son is that we all leave an enduring legacy in the fabric of time and space.
Thousands of years go by but still our contributions will still be affecting the lives of others long into the future.
Whether or not our contributions can be considered to be good or otherwise is largely down to how we all acted while we were alive.
As a humanist, I am guided by the desire to be a good person, to live a good life and to try to create a good society at all levels on our planet Earth.
Knowing that our atoms and actions live on after us provides me with all I need to know about how we shape the real world of today and the future world.
Your son will live on after you and I are gone, as will our efforts while alive too.
Such a good article by Emma about the delights of this still-worthwhile life (give or take endless news reports of violence) without any gods.
I’m on your camp but, as I understand it, the comfort that God or religion gives is precisely one of purpose. Haven’t you noticed that religious people always say “Things happen for a reason”? People find comfort in religion after tragic events precisely because religion tells them that things happen for a reason even if it’s not clear what that reason is. They are comforted to know they are part of God’s plan who is too great and therefore it’s pointless to try to fathom what his plan is. Thinking of life as a mystery you can not find the solution for – but for which there certainly is one, guarded by a paternalistic figure who knows better – may be more reassuring for some types than realistically realising it’s all chaos and randomness.
People watch sports people do sports sports gives people boundaries and we enjoy having those boundaries. Watch the hundred meter hurdles. Who decided on 100 meters, the number of hurdles the height of the hurdles – who cares? what we like is the structure. Imagine that we just watch people randomly running and jumping – becomes irrelevant. Religion does just that it gives life a kind of structure. Sadly, however, I believe that it fails to deliver – we loose sight of the important things in life. Many years ago there was a programme on TV about a race between a group of SAS soldiers and a group of aborigines. The SAS marched through jungle and desert to ‘win’ the race. The aborigines followed animal tracks, listened to bird song and ate foods from the land. Unlike the SAS they didn’t leave a trace of their being there. Who really won? Mindfulness is far more important than religion and delivers far more meaning to our lives
CeeDee, I agree that religion can be very comforting for people. However, that doesn’t make the claims of religion true. Moreover, the false consolation of religion comes at a price. I remember talking with an old Christian friend of mine who had had her fence blown down by strong winds during a freak storm a few days before. I made a comment about climate change to which she immediately retorted; “Oh, I’m not worried about that. Jesus will sort all of that out when he returns to earth in the second coming.” To her the thought of the second coming of Jesus provided comfort. But what she couldn’t see is that it had also made her into an intellectually lazy person as well as a socially irresponsible one. She honestly believed that she didn’t need a responsible attitude towards the environment because Jesus was coming back soon. That’s my point, providing comfort is not a good enough reason to believe in something. It makes people intellectually lazy and irresponsible. That’s dangerous.
There were a surprising number of neo-cons around the Bush Junior White House who believed in the second coming and that is why they opposed attempts to moderate climate change. It is not just your elderly neighbour who is intellectually lazy and socially conservative. There are many others too who hold positions of considerable power and influence with similar views. They are really frightening.
Indeed. That’s exactly my point. Believing in something just because it provides comfort is a dangerous premise that can ultimately have disastrous consequences.
I believe in Life. Simples !
“homo sapiens has only been knocking around for roughly 200,000 years”
You are Karl Pilkington AICMFP!
Well said Emma – and, as an ex-Catholic who was indoctrinated and controlled by myths from birth, I totally agree. 🙂
Clear, plain and simple. Beautiful.
The title of this article is a bit misleading. I was expecting comments on the personal rewards of being and doing good, without the hope of salvation or the fear of retribution.
My thoughts exactly.
Personally, I don’t think we need to *find* meaning or *search* for meaning. It’s not something that we need to do or even think about.
I enjoy my work, my girlfriend is amazing, my friends are great, there’s so much I love and want to do; life is full of things/people we value, that means something to us. Life is about being and doing (e.g., being a scientist by doing science, being a boxer by boxing, being a father, a lover, etc., by doing)… a search for meaning is (in itself) meaningless!! Just be and do!
Isn’t it a terrible vanity to think that our lives must have some external “meaning” ?
Agree with Marianne that this title is pretty misleading. Saying that ‘cosmic meaning’ must resonate in every moment for a religious person and then stating that every moment and thing in the world is wonderful for its very existence is essentially the same thing, its just a different origin for the ‘cosmic’ part of the sentiment. The purring of a cat and the explosion of a star doesn’t make us humanist/atheists good in the absence of religious faith, nor does simply stating rhetorical questions about how a Christian (which here seems to mean any religious person of any branch of faith) must be able to cope with tragedy.
“From a Christian point of view, we then have to accept the bizarre notion that humans had to wait 198,000 years for the Messiah to pop up….”
Unless they’re young Earth creationists. For the wait was only 4000 years. That’s not just bizarre, it’s decidedly absurd.
While I agree with much that was said in the article, it does not – in my opinion – go far enough to rise above the mundane aspects of life.
I have gone into schools and spoken to pupils or students about humanism and how that has shaped my ideas and beliefs.
On one occasion, after participating in a Question Time panel session with 6th Formers, I was afterwards individually approached by one student who asked me a number of questions, finishing with the question “Did I hate religionists?”.
My response was that I did not hate religionists as they were deluded and it is not fair to blame or hate religionists for their deluded beliefs and actions.
However, what I did resent was the enormous amount of human, material, financial and all other forms of wasted resources associated with religion.
I put it to the student that if all those resources wasted on religion had instead been applied to scientific and medical research, it was at least possible that by now we would have had cures for the common cold and AIDS. He immediately saw my point of view. In today’s situation, I could now – of course – add Ebola.
On another occasion, I asked a group of 14 year old students if it was OK to mess up our planet Earth? After all, if we messed up our own individual homes, we always had the options to move to another home, did we not?
We then examined the possibility of moving permanently off planet Earth on to one of the other planets in our solar system. After a while, they all understood that moving to another planet – or moon – was not an option for humankind.
I put it to all the students that what this meant was that with regard to the future of humankind they had a special responsibility to ensure the planet was not messed up irreversibly for themselves and also for all future generation.
That approach, I believe, deals with true reality rather than the babbling religious nonsense which revolves around mythical “souls” migrating to mythical “heavens” to be in the compamy of mythical beings and “gods”. Is that not right?
Your belief that life is mundane, cruel & insignificant & devoid of meaning & that it should rather be enjoyed as a series of moments contrasts with your assertion that life is astonishing. It is astonishing! Astonishing also is that even though you have eyes that see, ears that hear & all the other faculties you have been blessed with, you are unable to recognise that God is not created by mankind. With all the astonishing wonder of the world & universe & everything in it, you are unable to recognise that it could never have happened by chance all on its own! Given the magnificence of creation, why is it impossible to believe that there is life after death. Why are we beings with a spirit if there’s an absence of a spiritual realm? What is the point of that? It is very sad that you consider this world & this life “more than enough”. There is far more beyond this world & this life than our human mind & being can comprehend. I had a near death experience & can attest to the existence of God & life after death & that there is a plan & purpose for our lives here on earth without a shadow of any doubt whatsoever. I hope that you will have eyes that will see, ears that will hear & a heart that will listen the next time you experience creation & its wonders
Sandra how can you ‘attest to life after death’ if you didn’t die? It sounds more like revelation rather than evidence to me. Further the notion that life needs to have a ‘purpose’ is generally linked to a particular belief system. My atheistic life is full of purpose and reward and I do not need a belief in a fairy story to give meaning to it.
Why is it impossible to believe in life after death ? Because there is no evidence for it.
Your ‘near death’ experience was nothing more than a hallucination: a dream-like state which naturally, given your cultural background, reflected specific religious delusions. If you had beenraised as a Hindu you would have had a similar experience but a different set of delusions related to that different culture. This has been well researched, so comes as no surprise.
Your inability to rise above naive beliefs and understand the REAL astonishment of this universe is sad, especially as such wilful ignorance it is still so widespread across the population.
An excellent piece. What I find amazing though is that most of the people of faith that I know never engage with this sort of argument or debate. They seem content to accept all of the illogical and inconsistent facets of their religion without question or pause. I think this stems from a basic insecurity as much as anything else. They have not the confidence in themselves to live their life in the here and now without the reassurance of their heavenly father watching over them.
I’ll just troll for a bit- I find some of the comments here totally unfair and making sensible, religious minded people sound like brainwashed idiots. You are taking postulates that date back hundreds of years (e.g. God as a paternalistic figure, things happen for a reason blah di blah- sensible Christians stopped believing that 200 years ago!) or using neo-cons as contemporary representative of faith in general and this is intellectually rather dishonest- though of course highly entertaining in the media. So, here are some thoughts of why I need faith every day.
– when the author talks about how needless it is to pray for things to get better in your personal life. That’s exactly the point: people don’t believe in God for what it can do for their own little life. It is an extraordinarily selfish 21st century me-me-me view of religion to think you only pray in your own interest and that it is pointless otherwise- that is in fact exactly what’s wrong with our Western world. Praying, inwardly, in silence, makes you put things in perspective: it’s supposed to make you aware of all the suffering that goes on and makes you connect with those have had the same experience, it is not an abracadabra-make-my-wish-com-true formula and it is insulting to think that’s the only reason those who pray do it.
– for years and years people have needed a construct that was a shortcut for the sum of what they didn’t know: the future, other places, strangers etc,basically that awkward feeling of uncertainty, of being unable to judge or make your mind up. That construct is God (replace it in any bible extract, it works) and it constantly evolves with time/is different in every region. So when I think/sing/say “God is Good/God is great” I am basically saying don’t fear the future (support, appeal to and believe in people’s common sense, to make it prevail in the end), don’t fear your own future, or always start off giving people and places a chance, wherever they come from. For me “God is good” gives me confidence everyday about new experiences. It is for that very reason that Jesus being the “son of God” i.e. his father is unkown, is pivotal in Christianity. Those who reverse that causality to speak in the name of God talk rubbish, AFAIMC.
-the afterlife: I believe in the afterlife. The sum of all the memories you have left in people’s minds, from your closest relatives to the stranger you saw on the Tube once, that gigantic sum defines you entirely, your interaction with others is your existence as a whole. In fact it is bigger than you because you will have forgotten some of those memories/feelings you have left in people: there are things people know about you that you don’t know yourself. And it all remains after you die. What it means to me,everyday, is to leave a lasting positive impression on people, not to “look good” but also for people to learn to trust strangers. Read Lacan and the “objet petit a”, fascinating, life-changing stuff. Be an idiot with people and go to Hell (you will have ” idiot” written on your name forever), be cool and you’ll be in “Heaven on Earth”
What it also means on an every day basis is to keep the dead alive by talking about them and not making them taboo. It has also helped me cope in the past.
-you can laugh at the way the Bible is written and it is sometimes funny if you read from a 21st century Westerner’s perspective, what with talking snakes, Jesus magic and all that. But it dates from a period where people spoke in proverbs/allegories etc because they needed to (uneducated audience+oral storytelling tradition) and because there was no culture or even language to talk in a philosophical, psychoanalytical or Cartesian way. People were not less smart for it because contrary to us they had a much better instinct and understanding of the metaphorical/transferable nature of discourse than we do. In other words you could only intellectualise with stories in those days. And yet what you can learn from such an old text, that has lived through so many periods and where people have found meaning, appeasement, inspiration etc ,that gives it extraordinary power, relevance and universality.
It is all these things, not the cult that comes with it, not the creationists, not the awful stories in the media that define me as a religious being. I don’t wear a cross, I rarely go to Church, but I couldn’t live without it.
I don’t need a priest or a show-offy goodie-goodie community to say whether I am a good Christian or not- I can see why in the past it might have been necessary, but it has mostly been a source of oppression and power struggle as far as I’m concerned. Yet I have found it a rewarding experience to get into a more subtle understanding of Christianity as an adult. It’s not as dumb as you think or remember it…
Thanks Ian
Interesting, but I think you are actually describing a very different ideology from that which was founded and practiced by those renegade ex-Jews in the first century, and which held sway until the onset of the Enlightenment. It seems to me that those still susceptible to religious indoctrination make (sometimes desperate) efforts to retro-fit a more sophisticated contemporary understanding of life and the universe into a primitive Abrahamic framework, which in reality is as much a relic as any broken pottery from that period.
Beautiful article–especially the parts about being in the moment and appreciating the wonders all around us.
What’s wonderful about humanism is that it *believes in humanity*. By believing in ourselves (not imaginary “gods”), we take responsibility (finally) for our own destiny as a species–and that is the first step toward saving the human race.
I agree fully with the last comment by Jason C.
I recently read an article by Kenan Malik which – paraphrasing it hugely – made the point about the concept of “faith” that before monotheistic religion took such a firm hold over life on our planet, individuals at all levels in society had faith in themselves and in other human beings.
With the rise of religion, that faith in individual ability and humankind was lost and was replaced by an artifical or ersatz form of “faith” under which religion took away real individual faith in humankind and forced individuals to manifest a pseudo-“faith” through largely meaningless religious rituals.
One could view the Protestant Reaction and the Enlightenment as representing an attempt to restore individual faith in humankind back to all individuals, a way of recovering what was best before organised religion came on the scene.
The Bible – as we all know – is largely a work of utter fiction but – like Aesop’s Fables – it does sometimes contain old folklore sayings that are rational.
One that most religionists seem incapable of understanding is “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” First Corinthians 13:11.
It is understandable if children believe in fictional characters, such as father xmas, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, fairies, pixies, demons and the like.
But to continue believing in such things long after they have left their childish years behind is a constant source of amazement to me and an indicator of a form of retarded progression in the individuals conerned.
Looking around the world at the present time – particularly the Middle East – is it not the case that the sooner religious differences end the better for all of us?
But that’s exactly what I was saying. From Chinese or African proverbs to Greek mythology, humans have always used stories that contained extraordinary events to make you reach a deeper meaning, and these stories were not to be taken literally. In the past, humans were able to understand that and most Christians still do. I mean I am an academic and a Christian, do you think I really believe that the world was made in 7 days and that a talking snake made a woman start the original sin, after a rib was extracted from her boyfriend? Do you really believe that millions of Christians believe that? Then you are the one who needs a reality check…you sound so superior in treating the faithful like children. I bet you think humans are more intelligent now than they were before. Look at the way the modern man is destroying it’s own planet, knows about it, but still continue to saw the branch he’s sitting on. Humans in the past did not do that and would laugh at us.
Anyway, What is extraordinary with the New Testament, compared to Greek mythology for example is that the man at the center is someone from the simplest origins and that is the real message. The same could be said about prophet Mohammed. I always admire Muslims for the way they treat those in need with dignity.
I have talked with religious scholars who explained to me the real meaning of Old Testament texts, taking into account historical, archeological elements and what each part if the text referred to. It is absolutely fascinating, whatever your background.
One thing I will concede though is how staggeringly stupid creationist theories sound but please do not make them represent the whole of Christianity. They are an embarrassment to us…
If you knew more about human history (exactly what sort of ‘academic’ are you?) you would know that ancient humans were far from environmentally friendly (as we would say today), and only the primitive level of their technology served to localise the damage.
I was a protestant who became catholic and now am agnostic. I can no longer believe in a ‘supreme being’. I have seen too much of ‘faith’ demeaning those who do not ‘follow the path’ of a particular creed!
Quite right Michael – the problem all free thinking people have with any religion is in its intolerance of those who don’t share their blind faith in a particular doctrine – it’s simple stuff really and shouldn’t require a detailed study of any ancient and completely irrelevant texts to realise they were simply the only sense we could make of the world at the time. We do have a greater understanding of the universe now and there is no longer any excuse for the rantings of the superstitious. Religion is at its core selfish, divisive,dangerous, ignorant and quick to unleash violent furies on rational people or any other religion that doesn’t fit it’s set of ideals.
Where do we find meaning in our lives? I agree with living in the moment and feeling awe and wonder seeing the beauty around us. I agree with the line “life, with its tedium and pain is astonishing. But for me that is not enough. I have a thirst for truth. How and why are we here? What is the meaning of life? More importantly, what is the meaning of my life personally and your life? If life is not significant, what is the point? For someone like me who has a chronic condition that is going to slowly rob me of all I am; if I could not find significance in life, if I did not think there was a reason I exist, I would be saying, ” what’s the point, maybe Robin Williams took the smartest way out.” But I matter to God. I am significant. I am loved. I have studied and know the promises of grace and what the future holds. I choose to believe because I have put faith to the test and found that I can have NO fear because God’s promises are real, His relationship with me is real.
Life is cruel, I agree, but God is good. See, part of the gift of grace and eternal life is the choice. God loves us so much that He does not force His way on us. We live in a fallen world, that is if you believe that the first two people, Adam and Eve, chose rebellion over truth and life. In the beginning, that rebellion set our world that was once perfect into the chaotic mess it is today. Yes, life is cruel, but there is a plan. People miss it because it is in God’s time, not ours. If you study the Bible and know how many prophecies have unfolded, you know there is a plan. God so loved the world that He gave His only son so that NO ONE should perish. But the gift of grace is in the choice. Does it break my heart that some of my friends and family will choose not to believe? Of course, but it breaks God’s heart more. The gift is in allowing us to choose.
Why can’t someone just be a good person and that be enough? Well, who defines good? Can you lie a little? Can you cheat on your taxes a little? Can you murder just one person instead of millions like Hitler? In God’s economy, sin is sin. All of us fall short. I am no better than a murderer in God’s eyes. Sin is sin. But the gift….. Jesus died on that cross for me personally and you personally. But the gift is that you get to choose to believe or not.
Life is cruel. I have Parkinson’s. Yes, I have prayed for healing. No, I am not healed physically. I get mad at God sometimes over this, but I have found that He is patient and loving enough to wait out my tantrums and is always there for me with reassurance when I turn back to Him. He has a plan. It is just in His time and I trust that in this fallen world if I choose to turn my pain and suffering to Him, it will not be in vain. He will do something beautiful with it. I already see that happening. Yes, I still want to be healed, but I have already learned that I am significant, loved, and His own. I stand firm on that truth. Parkinson’s can’t take that away from me. In Christ I am fearless. I could quote scripture to you. Show you fulfilled prophecies. I could point you to what is happening in the world today and how prophecies are being fulfilled, but I know that is to no avail. You will search for truth and seek Him only if you choose, only if you look up and pray, “show me you are real.” Only if you choose to open that Bible and discover how significant your life is.
The gift is in the choice, and I will love you as a friend whatever you choose. Why do I care? Why do I share this? When you say yes to the gift of grace through Jesus, your life has so much meaning and joy, even in the midst of suffering, that you just want to share this gift with others. To quote one of my favorite songs, I am loved by the king and it makes my heart want to sing!”
Love you, Allison.
Lisa
As a Christian, I found this writing provocative and convicting. You’re absolutely right: there are many days when going to the office is absolute drudgery, and it’s difficult to focus on the beauty (or the sorrow and the needs) around me.
That’s the trouble for a Christian–maintaining a constant hope for a new Heaven and new Earth, while finding joy, making peace, and serving others in the present world. We don’t do it perfectly but we feel it is our calling and that it is a worthy calling.
I appreciate your article and I will continue to ruminate on your words.
Where do we find meaning in our lives? I agree with living in the moment and feeling awe and wonder seeing the beauty around us. I agree with the line “life, with its tedium and pain is astonishing. But for me that is not enough. I have a thirst for truth. How and why are we here? What is the meaning of life? More importantly, what is the meaning of my life personally and your life? If life is not significant, what is the point? For someone like me who has a chronic condition that is going to slowly rob me of all I am; if I could not find significance in life, if I did not think there was a reason I exist, I would be saying, ” what’s the point, maybe life is not worth the struggle.” But I matter to God. I am significant. I am loved. I have studied and know the promises of grace and what the future holds. I choose to believe because I have put faith to the test and found that I can have NO fear because God’s promises are real, His relationship with me is real.
Life is cruel, I agree, but God is good. See, part of the gift of grace and eternal life is the choice. God loves us so much that He does not force His way on us. We live in a fallen world, that is if you believe that the first two people, Adam and Eve, chose rebellion over truth and life. In the beginning, that rebellion set our world that was once perfect into the chaotic mess it is today. Yes, life is cruel, but there is a plan. People miss it because it is in God’s time, not ours. If you study the Bible and know how many prophecies have unfolded, you know there is a plan. God so loved the world that He gave His only son so that NO ONE should perish. But the gift of grace is in the choice. Does it break my heart that some of my friends and family will choose not to believe? Of course, but it breaks God’s heart more. The gift is in allowing us to choose.
Why can’t someone just be a good person and that be enough? Well, who defines good? Can you lie a little? Can you cheat on your taxes a little? Can you murder just one person instead of millions like Hitler? In God’s economy, sin is sin. All of us fall short. I am no better than a murderer in God’s eyes. Sin is sin. But the gift….. Jesus died on that cross for me personally and you personally. But the gift is that you get to choose to believe or not.
Life is cruel. I have Parkinson’s. Yes, I have prayed for healing. No, I am not healed physically. I get mad at God sometimes over this, but I have found that He is patient and loving enough to wait out my tantrums and is always there for me with reassurance when I turn back to Him. He has a plan. It is just in His time and I trust that in this fallen world if I choose to turn my pain and suffering to Him, it will not be in vain. He will do something beautiful with it. I already see that happening. Yes, I still want to be healed, but I have already learned that I am significant, loved, and His own. I stand firm on that truth. Parkinson’s can’t take that away from me. In Christ I am fearless. I could quote scripture to you. Show you fulfilled prophecies. I could point you to what is happening in the world today and how prophecies are being fulfilled, but I know that is to no avail. You will search for truth and seek Him only if you choose, only if you look up and pray, “show me you are real.” Only if you choose to open that Bible and discover how significant your life is.
The gift is in the choice, and I will love you as a friend whatever you choose. Why do I care? Why do I share this? When you say yes to the gift of grace through Jesus, your life has so much meaning and joy, even in the midst of suffering, that you just want to share this gift with others. To quote one of my favorite songs, I am loved by the king and it makes my heart want to sing!”
L
Lisa – I, too, am a sufferer with Parkinson’s. However, I cannot understand how a supposedly loving god could possibly impose of this and other far worse conditions on innocent people. I would rather not believe in any gods than believe that all the negative things in my life, and the lives of people much worse off than me, are lived at the whim of an all-powerful, utterly cruel and hateful deity.
I am clearly not loved by any king.
Dave,
You might not know or Believe that you are loved by the king, creator of this universe. However, your honesty touched my heart. We with Parkinson’s need to stick together no matter what we believe. I was once told hope this is not a strategy. Hope has let me down several times when I use that word is a verb. So I use it now as a noun in particular a person. People are hope to each other. And it may not matter to you, but a 54-year-old Jesus lover with Parkinson’s is touched by your raw honesty and cares about you. I don’t know how to express that other than say I value your honesty. Look up. Your words matters to me.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Rather than rely on an imaginary ‘god’ to make you significant, how much better it would be if you just felt significant in … yourself !!!
Have confidence !!!
Seek REAL truth, not fantasies and fake ‘prophecies’ penned over two thousand years ago by ancient hebrew clerics to hold their illiterate subject in awe and obedience !!!
Roger,
Let’s say you are right, and there is no God. Let’s say im a fool and my optimistic belief in a God who loves me is false. If your belief of no afterlife or afterlife for everyone is the truth, then what do I have to lose except you thinking I’m a fool ? I àsume that’s what you believe. Correct me if I’m wrong. I’m curious to what is truth to you , respectfully. The main thing I know is my life with God in it is far better than it was without God. Call that weak and without confidence , I call it secure, solid, steadfast. Foolish, maybe in others’ eyes, but loved to me
Sincerely,
Lisa
Applying your logic, if you are determined to believe in something non-existent, why not believe in Father Christmas – just as you did when you were young?
At least your belief in “Him” paid real dividends, did it not?
Is it not a real fact that you received presents from “Him” when you were young?
It may even be possible that this bountiful non-existent supernatural entity has continued to endow you with more presents over the years since.
Surely “He” is the most generous “god” you could ever have asked for?
Roger,
I did receive gifts from Santa Claus. I still do. :). I am graciously appreciative of an earthly father (and mother) who love me so much, that yes, they generously give to me in a way that makes me want to in turn pass that care and love on to my children and others outside my family. If you were trying to point out that Father Christmas wasn’t real, you are right , but the spirit of love passed down to me through that tradition is real. I know I am loved by my earthly father for which I have evidence. In a similar way, I know my Heavenly Father loves me because of the evidence I see in my life. Miracles, answered prayers , changed lives. I know you would say what I have seen is coincidence, as unreal as Father Christmas. But when you see with the eyes of your heart, you see beyond the tradition, you see the evidence of the spirit of love and you can’t deny He is real. I appreciate your challenging thoughts and words.
Lisa
Reading your response, I was reminded of a sketch by George Carlin, in which he too made the point that you’d be better off believing in Father Christmas because he delivered against your wishes much more frequently than god.
He then went on to say that having grown up he found he couldn’t continue asking Father Christmas for things and he had tried both god and actor Joe Pesci – a guy who took no nonsense and got things done – for things, with the result that Joe had managed to achieve a much better strike rate than god.
So, henceforth, he believed in the munificence of Joe Pesci and would pray to him on a regular basis as he always delivered much better on requests than god.
Maybe you should try praying to Joe Pesci too?
Life is what we individually make of it. It can be a bowl of cherries (to quote an old song), a dung heap, or somewhere in between. Ultimately, life is not cruel because natural life is just what goes on – nothing more, nothing less.
Values such as cruelty are human values not natural values.
When we watch – for example – a lioness stalking and then attacking and killing a young or elderly wildebeest on the African plain, it may offend our sensibilities that this has to happen in order that the lioness may obtain food for herself and any offspring she may have. However, that is life in its plain unvarnished form.
Ecologically, that activity can be justified as a form of population control.
When wolves were hunted to the point of extinction in US national parks, it was found that the population of deer increased massively, with the result that they stripped the bark off so many trees in the park that there was a real danger of an ecological disaster taking place. They had to reintroduce wolves back into the park to restore the previous natural balance between the wolves and the deer.
Not for the first time, well-intentioned human intervention in a natural setting achieved an outcome that was unexpected and unwelcome.
Sometimes, it is better to leave natural processes alone.
One thing that most humanists agree with is that we are all responsible for our own actions and inactions. It is in our hands sometimes to be able to make a positive contribution to ourselves and our local and global society.
We can choose to do something – or nothing.
What consequences that may have are for us to consider and act upon.
One thing which from a humanist perspective is clear is that leaving our lives in the hands of non-existent supernatural entities is just a recipe for disaster.
We – and we alone – hold the key to advancement of knowledge and material improvement for ourselves and our world, as long as we adopt a scientific approach and rational towards the introduction of changes in our world.
Simply relying upon “divine” intervention is a fool’s strategy.
My simple belief is that there is no worthwhile evidence to support the beliefs of any organised religion and that blind faith in non-existent entities is useless.
I also reject notions of spirituality or the existence of some kind of spiritual world or level of existence.
What we have is what we have got – and what is so wrong with that?
To see a lovely morning daybreak and to view a beautiful vista in the Lake District is something that is enjoyable and edmotionally rewarding.
There is nothing else beyond what we see, hear, touch, taste and smell – and that is the most unchallengable fact of life which neither I nor anyone else requires external validation to believe in.
Life is what we make of it.
An excellent response, I wish I could have said it so well.
Thank you!
I agree with Emma’s original article, especially her comment, “I’m starting to come to the conclusion that the convictions held by Creationists, as barking mad and as scientifically untenable as they are, make more sense than those held by the majority of moderate Christians.” Embarrassing as they are to most Christians, their beliefs have a kind of logic. At least they don’t pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe.
What has struck me about this discussion is that it seems to have been between sceptics and Christians (who seem to think their faith is the true one) with just the occasional reference to Islam, which is another Abrahamic religion but there are many religions.
Darren feels all the answers are in the Bible but believers of other religions might feel all the answers are in their holy books. They can’t all be right. It seems likely that they are all wrong. I have often thought that, if there was a world opinion poll asking, “Do you believe in Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism etc?” an overwhelming majority would vote “No” to each of them.
It is perfectly understandable that people, with no scientific knowledge hundreds of years ago, relied on the supernatural to provide “answers” to the mysteries of the universe and in one or more supernatural beings to provide the discipline and comfort that their parents provided when they were young. It may still be understandable in some parts of the world, although it is horrifying when they take their beliefs so seriously, they feel entitled to kill for them.
Lisa asked, “Can you lie a little? …. Can you murder just one person instead of millions like Hitler?” The short answer is “Yes” because life comes, not in black and white, but in shades of grey. It cannot be a sin to tell a child that eating greens will make him big and strong. It may not be a sin to avoid hurting a friend by telling her untruthfully that her husband (now reformed and remorseful) had not had an affaire. Most, even who oppose abortion generally, would regard it as sad but not sinful to abort a foetus to save the mother’s life. Who would have regarded killing Hitler as a sin to save millions of lives?
Life would be so much simpler if we could all rely on a book, from a supernatural source, to tell us what is right and wrong but the reality is that life is more complicated than that and we have to make our own decisions as individuals and communities.
There seems to be some considerable discussion on why are we here, what does it mean.
Its simple for me. We are here as a product of evolution. There is no meaning to life as such, it is just a the current state of the process of evolution.
There is no reason for there to be an afterlife. You can regard our memories, intellect and personalities as artifacts of the software that runs on the things we call brains. What we learn through our senses shapes how the software develops. If you turn a computer off, or it fails, the software stops.
As has been said above, when you die you leave some ‘echos’ in the minds of others. How long these echos last perhaps depends on the impact you made when alive. This is not usually accepted as a definition of an afterlife.
If people find a believe in some meaning to life helps them get by, fine, as long as they do not impose their views or beliefs on others.